Category: Let's talk
How's life tasting, people?
I just wanted to ask you all a question. Why is it common for blind people to rock? I don't, but my boyfriend does.
It doesn't bother me at all. I would have never noticed it if people hadn't pointed it out to me. It still doesn't bother me though. I don't really seem to notice trivial things like that. Or if I do, I look passed them because details like that aren't important.
I just wanted to know why many blind people do it.
And also, I know that it bothers many people. I can see how it could trigger some curiosity and questions in people. But if it bothers you, why?
Thanks much.
i don't do it either, but i guess my anser would be a sense of direction. just to get people used to surroundings etc. and it does not bother me, why should it
I don't do that myself either, but why do a lot of blind people apparently rock and stuff just because they're blind? I mean ... What's the point?
I've always thought it was possibly something a baby does naturally, and parents or teachers of that blind child haven't encouraged them early enough to stop doing so.
It annoys me, because it's something that as far as I know only blind people do, and so looks stupid and silly to sighted people. We strive to be accepted as normal people in society the same as everyone else, yet there are those who rock and such that bring attention to some very big differences, and we all know it's the differences many people focus on, not the similarities between people.
Peopleused to rock in my hi school. And the staff whould them to stop and the pupils would stop what? I don't know why they do iether. Is it a comfort thing?
Well, for one thing, people don't rock just because they are blind. Obviously, that's not what causes it because then we'd all be doing it, or have done it at one time or another in our lives. And I've never had that habit.
Also, I don't think there are as many people that want to fit in and be just like everyone else anymore. More people are leaning toward being their own person and not caring what others think. I'm not saying, that there aren't still many people that try to fit in and be similar to others, but that more people are leaning the opposite way.
As someone else said, it could be something babies do naturally. I mean, from the time we're infants, we're rocked back and forth, so it's a motion we're used to. Maybe, as children, it's a self-comforting mechanism, left over from being little?
I imagine sighted children do it, but there are two differences. one is, the sighted children can look around and see that others aren't doing that, and so learn not to. Also, a parent is far more likely to break a sighted child of that habit than a blind one. Often parents dont' correct such behaviors out of guilt, or, "Oh, they're blind, so it doesn't matter." Like Kevin, seeing blind folks do that annoys the heck out of me, too, because it wouldn't be acceptable for other adults, why should it be for us? If a sighted adult went into a job interview and did that, for example, they'd never get the job. So I think it's important for parents to think about that kind of thing when they've got blind children.
I get really annoyed by rocking, because even though I'm totally blind, if the rocker is talking, their voice moves with them. I was taught to look at the person who is speaking to you, even if one or both of you can't see, so when they're rocking, i just automatically place a hand on their shoulder to settle them down.
Now, i only rock when I'm really excited about something, or worried.
To blackbird and sister dawn, why is it so important for a blind person to look "socially acceptable" in the eyes of able-centred people? they created the social values and norms based on their ability, not based on our abilities or varying differences. If rocking helps a blind person establish a sense of direction, so be it. Being able to look, act, and conduct ourselves as "sightedly" as possible does not make us better at being blind. There is no hierarchy in disability--we can look in the direction of peoples' voices, sit stock-still during interviews, and wear matching clothing--but at the end of the day, we are still as blind as the person sitting next to us who doesn't find it imperative to make it seem as though they're making eye contact, or who rocks. Our disabilities (and differing ways of doing things) make us diverse, and not lesser or socially devalued individuals. So, to answer the initial question, I don't rock, but rocking doesn't bother me at all.
Hmmm! Turning out to be an interesting topic, lol, despite the subject matter, rocking. I've no idea when I started rocking as a totally blind child, but I still do it without even thinking about it, though I know I should kick the habbit once and for all. Its just so hard to get out of it, especially if you were rocked or bounced as a baby either in the pram or on someone's knee as I was, with two suspention prams to myself, one at my Grandparents and a huge Silver Cross classic at home to choose from, both of which had very well sprung chassies, being suspention prams, so I've always rocked or been rocked by other people since I was two weeks old and discharged from hospital after birth, lol. I also had two or three rocking toys as a child, so naturally, I'd sit and rock the day away on those, plus aw'w'w' yes, swings. Now, they kind of have to be rocked to get them going and keep them going, so when I am somewhere I feel and other people feel I have to sit still now, I'm so, so not used to sitting still. Mum always, always has a go at me and reminds me I'm rocking, but its just so hard to kick that habbit so, so annoying for sighted people to watch you do it, plus it makes some people feel sick watching you do it or just knowing that you do it if they're blind themselves.
Jen.
I rock too. I started doing it when I was in the fourth grade, and it is a habit that is hard as hell to get out of!! I've been trying really hard to stop, and I've been doing really well. Sometimes, I'll rock, and not realize that I'm doing it. A lot of the time when I rock it's because I'm nurvous, excited or I just don't have anything to keep myself from it. Again, It's a hard habit to break.
I used to rock all the time but I was eventually broken of that habbit. the only time I do it now is when I am listening to music by myself or if I get really stressed.
I rock too. i have always done it since I was little, and despite the efforts my grandparents tried to get me out of that habbit, it is not an easy thing, and I would not listen. I know that it is not acceptible to do, especially in situations like job interviews and such, and so when I am conscious of it, I try to stop. And if I am in such a situation, I try to focuss on not doing it in public. But when I am by myself, I will do it, especially when I am listening to music.
now as far as why blind people do it, i believe it is a form of stimulus. Since we are not able to see, it is kind of a way to keep our mind going, I dont really know how to explain it. But I know that when I am not doing it, I tend to fall asleep. i am so used to it that I can not sit still, and I dont plan on trying to get out of it, even though I should, because I've kind of left that a long time ago, but I do try my best to not do it in public. But to Degressive Distortion, I agree on your views in this matter, and I don't think it should matter what others think. We were made the way we were for a reason, so why try and change it just to impress others? Yes, there are situations when I think it would be appropriate to try and better yourself, especially to get the job, or for certain situations. But when I'm by myself in the room, with the doors shut, and the music on, I see no problem with it.
I kind of have a habbit of doing it in front of my blind friends as well, but I try not to, because your voice does move when you do it. And it does kind of bother me when I see other blind people do it, but only if the person is directly next to me. That's why I try not to sit next to someone and do it. But I do have blind friends who are trying to help me when I may not be aware I am doing it, so when they notice, they'll tap me on the shoulder so that I can stop. That doesn't always work, but at least that will help me to be conscious that I'm doing it, and so for public social purposes, I am trying to work on it only then. Behind closed doors though, the rocking wont stop, that's a part of who I am.
I certainly couldn't tell you of a single person that was born with sight that then later went on to go blind that rocks, while many that I've known who were born blind seem to do it, so that would seem to add credence to the train of thought that rocking is some kind of throw back to early childhood. As others have said, being able to see what is going on in the world around you, and seeing that adults don't rock, probably helps to break a child of the habit, where as not being able to see that it isn't a natural movement means that you just continue to do it.
To those who say that people who rock should be aloud to rock if that's what they wish to do, and that they shouldn't feel pressured into not rocking just because others don't perceive it as socially acceptable I can only say that while I understand the argument you make, I completely disagree with it. It might not be fair however there is a simple reality to all of this, the same people that make rocking an unacceptable habit are also the people that do 99.9% of the employing in the world and if you want one of those people to employ you as a disabled person, then you have to make yourself as an attractive proposition as you possibly can, and rocking is not a good way of going about this. You might not like that fact, but not liking it doesn't make it any less of a fact.
If you wish to rock in the comfort of your own home then by all means go on and do it. It isn't something I'd personally choose to do but to each their own and all that jazz. However rock in other places, public areas or worse still job interviews etc. Then you will be looked upon as strange. That's just how it is.
Dan.
the only rocking I ever have done is with electric guitars and loud amplifyers! hahaha bakc to the topic. I have been blind since age 11, and often saw, before I lost my sight, as I was partially sighted until then, blind children in my class rocking. now what always amazed me was how they could do it without falling onto their backs, now i never have rocked like some blind people do, and never got into it when I lost my sight. but I have tried to do it to find how they do it, and I can't do it at all! what do some blind people have at their centres of gravity, one of those balls which always centre you no matter what you do to offset their balance? hehee i'm sorry if my post sounds flippant and a bit OT, but i tend to agree with those who said blind people rocking is a symptom of a stress/excitement expression.
I realize that rocking does not look "socially appropriate", and that we have to behave naturally at our own risk. And I do realize that there is a certain element of risk involved in not behaving as "sightedly" as possible. Having said that, the facts that you speak of are only social facts--they are facts that have been socially constructed by people. It's almost similar to telling a black person to act as white-washed during job interviews as posible, because subtle racial discrimination does still exist in the workplace, so they had best not act their normal black selves for fear of not being hired in a "white culture" organization. I know what you're saying, and to an extent I agree with you, but I also think that social facts are not written and stone, and that we can work to change them.
From what I understand, rocking is a way for a child to increase their sensory stimulus. I see this a lot in kids with cerebral palsy too, although they present with different idiosyncracies than rocking. The fact remains though that all of the motions increase stimulus. Parents are more reluctant to correct abnormal behaviour in their disabled or 'abnormal' babies, so it continues into adulthood.
FM
Blind people choose when old enough to do so, whether or not they rock. Sure it's accepted as a habbit difficult to break, but it's not impossible. Compairing that to black people in society is pathetic. Black people never had a choice about their skin colour and we should only be glad that they have been able to force society to accept them as people the same as everyone else.
If in my lifetime there is a movement of blind people trying to force society to accept that rocking should be accepted among disabled people I no longer wish to be a part of it. I'm often flattered that sighted people forget I'm blind, and treat me the way they do all other friends, that couldn't be possible if I rocked, simply as it's so in their face at any time, that they'd be unable to overlook it.
I dont think anyone really stated that rocking should be "accepted," but for people just to go solely off of a fact that someone rocks in order to decide whether or not to associate themselves with that person would be just as bad as not accepting someone due to their skin color, being that you're not only judging someone almost 90 percent enacurately, but also because you're judging by physical appearance a bit too harsh! While I can see that something like this would stop someone from hiring someone for a job, the thing I can not seem to understand is how people automatically see someone as "retarded", if they do something like this. And as for breaking the habbit, if a said person is willing to do it, and has enough support for trying to do so, then by all means, good for them! It's not easy, but if you have the appropriate support, and will power, that process may be a little more attainable. I don't agree with anyone who thinks someone who rocks is any different or dumber than anyone else, and so the fact that society seems to make judgements based on that is something that would be nice to change, not to make rocking "acceptable", but simply to be able to open people's minds to new ideas.
Ashley, it's a nice idea, but society in the main is scared of things they don't understand. Many people won't even try to communicate with blind or other disabled people because they don't understand the disability, and so can't get past that, and simply speak to us the way they would anyone else. Add to that something like rocking, and you are putting up extra barriers, because of how it looks strange. So really before you can ever ask society to understand something like rocking, you have to break down the barriers that are there simply there as a result of fear.
I think rocking is something that blind babies do to stimulate themselves. Just like eye-poking and hanging their heads down. It's one of those things that has to be caught and stopped early on or it can manifest in to adulthood. I had a bew "blindisms" that everyone in my little universe tried to control, but with no luck. I've had everything done to me in order for me to stop; I was slapped, flicked, screamed at, and threatened"If you don't quit pushing your eyes in, they'll sink in to your head and you'll make people think you don't have any eyes." I wish somebody had caught it early and used amore gentler approach to these bad habbits. I still find myself eye-poking and hanging my head down, particularly when I'm bored or tired. I don't rock and thank God for that, but I know people who do. I knew someone who rocked so bad, he ruined his furniture. He was my husband's roommate before we got married, and he actually broke his bed from rocking while he sat on it. He never stopped, even if gently reminded that he was doing it and at one point, he said he didn't care that he did it. That really bothered me because to me, we as blind people cause so much trouble over inaccessibility and inequality, and yet we do these bizzarre things like rocking, head shaking and hand-flapping and they don't even care about it. It annoys me to no end. I can honestly say that I try very hard to rid myself of my bad habbits and I have gotten myself to the point that I rarely exhibit these bad habbits in public or in front of people outside of my immediate family. Well, there's nothing else I can say about it, really.
Handflapping? i've never heard of that one. Someone explain, please ...
Don't all the blind people that poke their eyes have light-perception? I think my boyfriend does that too. I know he used to, I don't know if he still does. But he has light-perception. Does it have to do with the light bothering their eyes or something?
to blackbird:
Having people forget that you are blind simply means that you have learned how to pass, make them feel comfortable, and behave as sightedly as possible. It isn't flattering because it creates a hierarchy of disability where those who can pass as able-bodied people as much as possible are higher up on the ladder than those who haven't "overcome" their disabilities. Our disabilities are very much a part of who we are, they are part of our body. We cannot overcome our own bodies, just like we cannot overcome our own race. Having people forget what makes them differ from each other is not necessarily a good thing--it glosses over a very true reality--we are all different, and that difference is nothing to be overcome or feel shame about. If I suddenly began rocking and my friends deserted me because of it, I would frankly be very insulted; my friends would be friendly with me regardless of my blindness or blindness-related habits.
My friends both understand and accept my disability, but it doesn't need to be a focal point in our interaction as friends. I like you would be offended and upset should friends dessert me because of something I should start, however I do believe it's harder to make new friends with a difference like that.
I also don't say we shouldn't accept and acknowledge differences, but if we live and interac with sighted people in the real world, we need to understand that we will be judged for many things, so it is our duty to make them feel as comfortable as possible so that they learn to understand that people with disabilities don't need to be avoided and feared because of any lack of understanding.
I don't rock either.
However, I was scanning through posts, & I have to say, I really don't care what people think, sighted or otherwise about me.
I'm not saying that I don't get annoyed by certain things, like people acting helpless.
We were in the voc rehab van one time, & this girl started flipping out because she couldn't put her seatbelt on. That was annoying.
But in general, I don't care what anyone thinks of the things we do/don't do (in my case). All of us do things we shouldn't. What about a sighted person who picks their nose in public, or scratches their privates in public? That's inappropriate, but some of them do it. So if they don't take me for who I am & like me that way, then eff them, because I don't need them, & I don't live by their hi's & good-byes.
Personally i think its mainly down to the parants. i my self have never rocked but my twin brother did but my parants told him it was rong and then he stopped. Also, sorry to be blunt but to thoes people who say if you want to rock you should you give us blind people a bad name. just my oppinion,
Paul.
I totally agree with Paul. Rocking isn't attractive in the least. I can't even stand when someone does it over the phone much less sitting there with them and watching them do it in public.
I had light perception till I started School, but I never, poked my eyes. I hated the feeling when I attempted it, and it was and still is, a totally, pointless, not to mention stupid thing for anyone to do.
Jen.
to blackbird again:
You may feel as though your duty in life is to educate sighted people, make them feel comfortable, etc. But that is not my duty. My duty in life is to fulfil my life goals and dreams, to be as kind to others and myself as possible, and to lead a fulfilling life. I was not born with a "duty" to anyone--sighted or otherwise. It is the uncomfortable person's responsibility to become comfortable. It is not our duty to educate and make others comfortable; it is our duty to educate ourselves. Not too long ago, women in the workplace felt unable to truly express themselves unless they were the alpha-female, or otherwise possessed typically "masculine" characteristics; however, with various feminist movements and changes in social discourse, women in the workplace are not nearly as discriminated against for being women and doing "womanly things" (taking maternal leave, raising, children, etc.). But really, they were living in a "man's world" but they challenged that concept, and advances are being made (we've a longw ay to go, but progress is progress). What I'm saying is that social discourses can be changed; this is not a "sighted person's world" any more than it's a "white man's" world. It's our world too.
You're all missing out! Rocking is incredible. The chicks love it! There's nothing better than a good old back and forth, especially in a busy street or shop. Then if you add the hand flap head bop combo, you are guaranteed to get laid! Poke you're eyes in a bit, and you get a refined look. Dribble a bit down you're chin, and all the girls will want to sit on it. It's a babe magnet! Do it all, and you'll have a healthy and varied sex life in no time! You could have a girl a night! i should know, i've had well over two sexual experiences!
Once again Skyla your underlying point is wide of the mark though for me because there is a whole world of difference between being born blind and developing the habit of rocking, and being born a woman. The very obvious difference being that you don't have a choice being born female, or indeed black for that matter. You do have a choice whether or not to rock though. It may well be a very difficult habit to kick, I certainly don't dispute that point, but it is still a habit that can be kicked if the desire is there.
Blackbird's point is that as blind people we already have many stereo types to overcome if we are to succeed in the big wide world. The onus is on us collectively to change those attitudes and people turning up to job interviews rocking, poking their eyes etc. Isn't a good way to go about this.
I suspect that this isn't an issue that we're ever going to agree on though. So far as I'm concerned there is much that could be done to improve the chances of employment for visually impaired people, and one of the first things we have to start with is removing basic assumptions that others have of us. However this isn't something that should go too far for me. I don't feel that education is a one way street in this regard. Am I to plead discrimination because somebody else thinks I look stupid when rocking instead of just turning the other cheek and putting it down to social ineptitude? I certainly don't believe so. I agree that some concessions have to be made toward our blindness, but you'll never convince me that considering rocking as acceptable should be one of those concessions. It's almost as though you're saying that being blind makes us exempt from making any effort at all to fit in. You know, I developed this habit of rocking when I was young and I really don't feel like trying to stop doing it now so instead I'm just going to put the onus on you to change the way you think, even if accepting me this way could prove to be harmful to your business. I mean imagine working in a position where you're dealing with members of the public on a daily bases. Do you really think that people are going to feel comfortable approaching you for a bank loan, or advice on where to holiday this summer, if the first thing they see is somebody rocking backwards and forwards while shaking their head around and poking their eyes? You can't just demand constantly that others should accept you the way you are. Now fair enough if it is something that you truly can't help, like being a woman or being black, or indeed being visually impaired, but rocking? Poking of eyes? Those things can be helped. That's the big difference. Something can be done about bad habits if the willingness is there, and if it isn't there, then why should others accept it? If blind people can't be bothered to do something about their bad habits, then why should others just accept that fact and accede to their laziness as it were?
Dan.
let's please not equate rocking, or any other bad habbits, to something like equal treatment in the workplace.
One thing is not to be hired because you are blind, another thing is not to be hired because you are an adult and still maintain the bad habbits of a child.
Rocking may be a blind thing, but it's no different than nose picking, or belching. You just don't do these things. And, if you do, then you work hard to break yourself off them.
If you want to rock out, shake back and forth, if you want to fart, pick your nose, if you want to make crude remarks, suck your thumb, and simply do what you feel comfortable with, without regard for those around you or for regard of how you will be perceived, then go ahead; do it, but don't then start to wonder why people think you are odd and don't want to be around you much.
And of course I know that some people can't help themselves. That's fine, we are all at the mercy of our habbits at some point in our lives. It's the people who are concious of what they are doing, yet choose to continue doing these things that need a reality check.
Wow! You all have got your boxing gloves on, haven't you?
Okay. So no one's able to justify or give an educated guess on eye-poking?
Honestly, I could give a shit whether people rock or not. It doesn't bother me one bit, but I do understand why it is considered a bad habit. Unlike smoking, it's not a habit that's well-accepted by society. But I think that a person should be free to poke their eyes, rock, flap their hands, and hang their head down all they want. But you know what? You could take any group of people and say that they aren't well-represented. And sure, it adds pressure and difficulty to life, but then so be it. It's a part of life and that's that.
I'm not saying that people should just rock and fart to their hearts desires during job interviews, I'm saying that the whole notion of fitting in needs to be reconsidered. No, we don't choose to be women or people of colour, and we likewise don't choose our disabilities. And yes, women could indeed choose not to be very "feminine" in the workplace; in order to have continuous upwards mobility in a company, she could indeed choose not to have children or raise a family. But should she? that's the point I'm arguing. The specific example of rocking aside, I'm saying that we need to reconsider our definition of what is considered to be normal and acceptable. Our success in life should not be measured based on how well we blend in with the sighted community. I realize that certain behaviours have repercussions; that's not up for debate. What is, however, is the whole notion of us living our lives according to the social norms prescribed by (and for) sighted people. That's all I'm saying. Anyways, I've given my opinion and you've all given yours. I doubt that there's much else we can say without eventually repeating ourselves.
And just think--all the shit you do in order to blend in with the "sighted world" (and I put that in quotations because I'm not sighted and it's definitely my world as well), all the efforts we go to to appear "normal"--why is the onus on us to act as normal as possible? who are we kidding? we're blind underneath it all. You don't see sighted people going out of htere way to make things accessible for us? it's always called a "fight for accessibility" for a reason. People often don't even think about disability when creating workspaces or public access areas, yet we're supposed to accomodate this so-called "sighted" world everywhere we go? We often end up making most of the accomodations as opposed to being accomodated
well that's just the way it is and we have to accept it, it is a sighted world and we have to unfortunatly pull our weight three times as hard, just has to be that way. The world doesn't owe us anything, if we want something we have to fight for it. and as for the whole rocking thing, if you wanna attract attention to yourself in a negative manner, go rite ahead, lol
lmfao Cam, I love you! LOL. Okay, on to the topic! I was born with no site, but do not rock, nor have I ever rocked. I can't stand being around rockers, because first, I hate sitting on a coutch or bed, whhen it's shaking. Second, as someone pointed out, whether in person or over the phone, their voice moves with them. I had an ex who rocked, and get this actually use to spin in place. Oy, it drove me nuts. I don't think there was one blindism he didn't have. I can't handle it. I'm sorry if that sounds stuck up, but it makes us all look bad. LOL. That's my thoughts though. How can we expect to be treated as sighted people, if we don't conduct ourselves as much like sighted people as possible?
Skyla, The reason I feel we need to help educate sighted people and make them feel more comfortable around disability is that there are many who need more help and consideration than I feel I myself do, if I can make just one sighted person comfortable enough to stop and help another blind person in need of assistance then my work has been a success.
As for eye poking, I still do it a little sometimes, though not often, but it's because I believe when I was young I could see, and used to strain my eyes to read and so on. for whatever reason subconciously I still seem to get eye strain from reading braille, as though my eyes are still trying to do the reading. I know they certainly without my control follow my fingers from left to right and back even though I look streight ahead when reading, and not down at the book. so when my eyes are straining they begin to ache, and to gently press on them relieves some of that pain. I don't believe I do it in public and certainly hope not.
On a final note to what Dan was saying concerning rocking in the work place. I went to Sight village last year, the largest exhibition in the UK of access technology. One top company representative, I think possibly the owner who I went to speak too, rocked so fast and vigorously that I was actually disgusted that someone in his position, in such a public way still did this without worry for how it made him look. He seemed to rock so much that we felt he might brain someone one day. It really did take something away from the delivery of his exhibition in my view, as it becomes difficult to concentrate on the technology when the voice is moving so fast while talking to you.
Eponine, I had to smile a bit when you were talking about your ex spinning in place. I used to do that as a child myself, and my parents broke me of it, thank God.
But back to the topic. I agree with Eponine, if we engage in all these strange mannerisms, and then demand to be treated as equals, that's kind of a contradiction in terms. Why should society write us a pass to act strangely just because we're blind? That's infantilizing us: "Oh, they don't know any better, they're blind." That's the very kind of treatment I would think most of us want to avoid.
Cam and Bridgette, wow, you both made me laugh so hard!
Ok, anyways, I'm sorry Skyla, but no, the world is not mine, or yours, or any one sighted person's. However, it is a sighted world. There are quite a few more sighted people living in it than there are blind people. It is unfortunate that we have to take so many different approaches to life than sighted people do, but if you want to be seen as a person too, unfortunately that means you have to fit in with the majority of people, and the majority of people is sighted. This is why your argument about racism and women doesn't fit. There are lots more black people and females than there are blind people. Also, a main goal in life is to educate yourself yes, but as I think Kev was saying, it's also just as important to educate the people around you. If they don't understand your condition, then you're never going to be able to talk properly, are you? If I didn't understand sighted people, I might as well forget associated with them in the world, right? I hope this makes sense.
Raven, I don't really poke my eyes, but they get really irritated with that gross sleepy stuff a lot, so I rub my eyes a lot. I don't know if this answers your question, but some people might just do it as a way to relieve them of some pain. I try my best not to do that in front of anyone, but sometimes the pain gets so bad I start tearing, so I usually use a tissue when that happens. Lol.
I also have a problem with people who rock. My mom told me about a person who she saw rocking at a program I went to, and I couldn't even comprehend it. I just thought it was so weird. I've never really done it, or if I did when I was young, my parents stopped me. I wasn't born blind, although I did lose my sight when I was about two years old, so I might as well have been born that way. As far as the hanging of my head, I used to do that all the time, so my dad would kind of jokingly threaten that my head would get stuck that way if I didn't try to hold it up more. Teachers and family often just used stupid cute things like, "We want to see your pretty smile!" to coax me into looking up, and now I have no trouble with it. Instead of rocking, I kind of shake my leg sometimes. I don't do it often, just when hyper or stressed, and definitely not enough around people where they'd notice it.
I have to say that when I know people aren't looking at me, it bothers me too, so looking down or rocking annoys me for that reason as well. I like to know my listener is looking at me, but if I hear them talking in another direction, it discourages me from farther conversation because I just feel like they're not paying attention. I can just tell from the direction of their voice if they're looking or not, as I am completely blind.
hi. ok blackbird, your eyes following your fingers when you read braille is totally normal for one who had sight and has now lost the ability to see. the brain does not stop moving the eyes in the way nature intended just because the eyes cannot transmit the info to the brain. I for, example, have got little light perception, but i know, for instance, that my eyes look in the direction of a person more often than not. i can, if i wish, control where they look too. i will often find myself looking down at food i'm working on, or at a job i'm doing, indeed, if i'm wearing goggles, as when riding out on a hack, i find i get disoriantated more than if I'm not wearing them. and the view is no better with them on or off, it's just a brain thing I suppose, though v intresting for all that. and yes I agree with your teaching views, i think we, as, blind, people need to teach others. i work with horses, and have tried to get an educational establishment to let me do a qualification in horse care, the propriotor of the stable says she's up for me doing this, indeed all that I do is included in the nvq, and i work to the standard of others who are sighted in the things I do, but the college won't allow me to do the course, as they cite, health and safety, as reasons for not letting me do the nvq, and they won't take the time to investigate how far the nvq can be adapted so blind people can achieve the same as sighted can. there are adaptations that can be made as regards mucking out stables, shifting muck etc, as a candidate can assist another if they are unable to actually do the whole thing themselves., i know this, but the college won't even investaigate making provisions. and the propriotor of the stable has invited the bigwigs from the awarding college down to the stable to see what i do and discuss things with her and me, but they refuse to come and see the work i do with the horses. so what does that tell you? and yes, I've been risk assessed by health and safety, and guess what? there are no issues at all as regards my blindness and working with the horses. sometimes people say one thing, and do another, this is where the law comes in, but the DDA is civil and not criminal legislation, and until it becomes, criminal to discriminate when there are adaptations that can be made which would not compremise the health and safety of others or the workings of the business, we as blind will get little consideration in the workplace. all a company needs to claim is, after due consideration, about five seconds in my view, it's too expencive to make reasonable provision for x blind person to work in our organisation, and they've complied with the law. unfortunately, the adaptations blind people need do not often benifit others, ramps, for instance, benifit wheelchair users and buggys, so they'll get fitted. braille signage on doors, does not get any consideration, as it is not helpful to "the majority. for instance.
Well, I agree with Skyla on this, and although I agree that doing things like this at a job interview would definitely be a big no no, I cease to understand, why is being "accepted" so important? If people don't want to be around me because of what I do, they're not worth it! That's just my take on it! Now, as I've said before, that doesn't mean I've gotta put on a show at the workplace because it does take away from what you're trying to do, and therefore I do try my best to avoid doing such things in a public place, or even around people whom it might bother. But people who are my real friends do try to help me if they notice I'm doing it in public, and I'm thankful for that. While I don't try to be "accepted", I do work on these things as a way to better myself!
Now as for the eye-poking, I do this, and unfortunately, this has caused problems with my eyes. I'm not really sure if there would be a "right way" for a parent to go about stopping a baby from doing these things, but even though I've always known it's a bad thing to do, it's just been hard to catch myself when I'm doing it. As far as why I do it, this is going to sound weird, but it helps me to think. I do it when i'm forced to concentrate on something. Hand flapping? Didn't know that was considered one of those blindisms as well! I don't do that as a habbit, and haven't met anyone who does it. And as far as the eye poking thing and people who have light perception, it's funny you say that because I do have some light perception, which comes as a surprise to me after all these problems i've been having. Anyway, well that's the way I see it.
this is fascinating. Back in the early '80s, I remember reading in a parenting magazine that preemies, whether blind or sighted, tend to rock. the theory is that it has to do with not getting enough rocking in the womb. you know when the mom walked the baby feels the motion which calms and relaxes. The earlier the child was "hatched" the more they tended to use this behavior as a comfort mechanism. that is why lots of hospitals with nicus have baby rocker,s grandmas or grandpas who come in and do this in chairs every day. in some places the isooletts, pardon spelling, rock for a certain amount of time every day.
I only rock when em alone and have the music playing, and its not all of the time. I have never done it on stage, but have many friends in the past who use to do it all the time. It use to bother me because people would comment on the rocking and not pay attention to the music we would be playing.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, I have pretty much been broken of the rocking habit. I have not been broken of rubbing my eyes. I tend to do it when I'm stressed. I do have light perception. There was an article I read many years ago about blindisms and it explained a theory that as ppl born blind, we were not taught to properly fidget and that the blindisms present some form of stemulus. . I wish I had thought to save a copy of that particular article, as the site where I read it is no longer in existence and I cant find the article anywhere.
I don't think those of us with opposing views are going to convince each other at this point, but I frankly disagree with the premise that if we are not the majority, it is our duty to blend in: that's utter bull shit. And saying that there simply aren't as many blind people as there are women is a poor argument, because it implies that in order to be considered as worthy of having a distinct identity, we must exist in large numbers. well, blindness is becoming more (and not less) prevalent, so hopefully within 100 years or so, our population will be large enough to qualify as being allowed to act "blind". In the meantime, let's bust our asses to appear normal, because that's the only way any progress will be made, right? The last thing I will say on this topic is that I don't want to be normal. I want to be me. I only get to live once, so I'm going to make this life as fulfilling and as rich as it can be. I'm fortunate to have a wonderful family and loving friends, and am doing what I want to be doing in life (so far). I'm really glad that with the exception of a few posts, this thread has remained so civil. And some of the posts were hilarious!
I used to poke my eyes when I was like 6 or 7, but never really did it after that and now I never do. I used to do that though, mainly when I was bored or something. And I never understand why blind people rock anyway. It's just not normal.
Sarah, leg-shaking? Oh, my grapes! Do you know how many people do that? So many! I do it. Well, it's more so the foot, but that's not the point. It's a common ideosincracy.
And I don't poke my eyes, but I do rub and wipe them more often than others because I have prostetics. I used to be embarrassed about wiping my eyes so much because people would always ask me if something was wrong. But I don't even think about it anymore.
And all in all, this is a sighted person's world. It doesn't matter, the majority always wins. This is a right-handed, sighted, man's and white man's world. Problems will always exist for minors or the "inferior" because that's just how human's are. There has to be some kind of exclusion, discrimination, or down-grading. Some people live to do just those things, and so we are forced to deal with it one way or another.
And no braille on signs for rooms? Where the hell do you live! And even if there isn't braille, I know what the print letters and numbers feel like, so I can read raised print.
And about blindisms, I think that every group of people have their own drawbacks, habits, or qualities about them that seem strange to others, are considered unacceptable, or are thought of as abnormal. For instance, people who are deaf or retarded moan and groan a lot or more often than others. No, that's not normal, and I'm sure they don't have to do that. And, a retarded person may not be able to stop doing that, but a deaf person has the capability. Another example. Many black people don't speak proper English. So must they all speak like most other nationalities? I don't think they should. To some people, that's their signature quality. And I'm sure you don't want people to expect all blind people to rock, poke their eyes, and so on, but each group of people has some signature quality that most people expect of them. I know. Not the way it should be, but the way it is.
And keep up this debate. I love it!
i live in the UK, where we have a DDA disability discrimination act, but the act is only affective where a company thinks, it's "REASONABLE!" to do things. so raised letters on doors etc, braille is not a consideration here. believe me, in the US you have it far better than in the UK.
Well I poke my eyes yes, bad habit .. But I never got into the rocking thing. I don't know why. But I've known others that did that.
I found that strange, but whatever they want to do is for them, and yes for a job interview that wouldn't look properly accessibl.
Yeah Raven, as far as all the prostetic eye stuff, yeah that's how it is for me too.
Skyla, I'm glad you have something to live by. That's really good, seriously. When someone's got something strong they believe in, I say go for it. It helps people eopole get through a lot of things. I live a much different philosophy, so we'll just have to disagree, but that's alright.
I had a friend years ago who used to periodically get up and jump around, flail his arms in the air and generally do an awful lot of mannerisms. It used to be off putting to me due to the nature of the stuff and the potential that he'd tear the house apart when he was doing it! He was moving fast! I know it is probably common for blind people to have little quirks, whether it is something they like to feel or touch or a particular mannerism they like to do. That is my experience anyway. This is a problem only if the person hasn't learned what is and is not acceptable to do around others.
Flail and jump around? That's a bit frightening.
Raven I am serious. I wish you had been there. Obviously not seeing him, I don't know exactly what contortions he was going through. But wow, he was all over the damn room!
It's really sad that for many people, these nonbeneficial idiosincracies aren't caught when the person is younger and more easily influenced.
All right, people!
I found out something about these blindisms we've been discussing. I ran this topic by my highly-intelligent older sister. She says that sighted people rock also; many people do it, but we just can't see it. People rock for different reasons. Some do it because they're cold, excited, bored, or just because they need to fidget and keep moving. Blind people do it for these same reasons, and maybe more.
So actually, this does make us fit in more with sighted people, and those blind people don't look weird to everyone around them when they do it.
So those of you who rock, rock on!
Also, a few sighted people do the hand-flapping thing when their excited. And sighted people also talk with their hands and do all sorts of hand gestures, even when they speak to blind folks. She told me that people that have light-perception poke their eyes because it changes the way light is viewed; when their finger is in their eye, it temporarily blocks out the light. Too, some sighted people do spin, but it's more so the kiddies that do that.
So those of you who rock, poke your eyes, spin, and hand-flap, rock until your spine snaps, poke your eyes out, flap your fingers off, and spin until you've got your own axis too!
um, don't know what kind of people your sister is hanging out with. but yeah, it's not normal for people to rock, sighted or blind. i have only been blind for eight years now, and in my sighted days, i had never seen a sighted person rock. and the hand flayling. yeah, some do it. but not in a spastic way that blind people do. They do it like everyone does when there talking with there hands.
In saying this, there are spastic sighted people too. but it's not the norm. so don't think by acting like a spaz, your going to fit in. lol.
Raven, sorry to say this to you, but your sister maybe trying to make you feel better about such things. I went to a school for the blind, and the staff even there tried to get kids to stop doing this, because it's really not normal. I guess your sister could be hanging out with some drunks or something though. lol
Lmaooo! You guys are hilarious!.
Well, I'm sure it's not as common as wearing glasses or wearing braces, but some people still do it.
And make me feel better about it? Why, I never felt bad or embarrassed about it. I was just curious as to why blind people did these things.
I think that some sighted people still do this, but it's much more common among blind people.
I just wanna say I'm glad I have a great mother who told me I looked like a retard wen I rocked, spun around, or did other various blindisms. Because she made me aware of how it looked, I am now free of those traits, and can fit in anywhere I go with the sighted majority.
Thing is, I believe I may have witnessed sighted people rock side to side, as though rock from foot to foot, but never back and forth. As a child I had sight, and never saw it, and for some years had very good hearing before becoming partially deaf. I think it's the degree to which blind people rock maybe that makes it an issue if sighted people do at all rock, because there's one hell of a travel path when most blind people rock that makes it incredibly obvious and undesirable to most.
There was one blind dude who I went to camp with when I was young. I'll never forget him! He used to spin his head from side to side in a most vigorous way. We used to call him helicopter head! I wish somebody told him how bad it looked. Naturally, it wasn't our place to do it. It should've come from his parents. He'd sit on his bed, spin his propeller, I mean head, and talk to himself constantly! It wasn't a question of his intelligence, either, because the guy was crazy smart. Just, nobody ever stopped his habit, so it probably still continues.
I agree. It's most likely the degree to which blind people do it that makes them look silly.
Also, I have heard of some blind people that shake their heads like that. How strange.
I wonder, do they get whiplash? Do they need a chiropractor every couple weeks? Do they do it when they dream? So many questions!